Wownero

Yo, I want to migrate suchwow.xyz](https://suchwow.xyz) to [suchwowx.xyz (https://suchwowx.xyz)%20(swx). There are a few reasons for it. You guys use it heavily so I am getting your feedback before making any changes. Here is my reasoning:

* I no longer want to host a custodial wallet and proxy funds through it. I want your Wownero tips to be entirely p2p with no middle-man (me). WOWX and AVAX tips we can tally up because the chains are public, but WOW should be private, right?
* I no longer want to be the central authority of all Wownero memes. Some people want to post more explicit and provocative content, which is fine, but I don't feel comfortable hosting that content on my domain and server, so I remove it. People get upset and say I'm censoring them or that Wownero is censoring them. I'm not Wownero, I'm LZA, suchwow.xyz is my domain that I host on my VPS. They should host that content on their own domain and server or with others who are comfortable doing so. Their battle against censorship shouldn't be fought on services I pay for.
* I no longer want to depend on an upstream identity service (Wownero SSO). It's sometimes error prone and the operators are busy people. I want to evolve to use cryptographic signing tools instead of usernames/passwords in a database.
* I no longer want to do this for free. I'd like to receive a cut of the tips for my part in developing and maintaining the software and site.

The biggest concern I know most have is the inclusion of other technologies, such as the Avalanche blockchain and MetaMask wallet. I get it, the cornerstone of this community is privacy enhancing technologies and these software projects are used with public ledger blockchains (AVAX, ETH, etc). There is no requirement to transact on a public blockchain to use the new service; you don't need tokens of any sort. MetaMask wallet is a requirement but purely for it's ability to generate 256 bit private keys, 160 bit keccak hashes of ECDSA (secp256k1) public keys (https://shapeshift.com/library/private-keys-creating-ethereum-addresses), and signing messages. If using that browser extension is a concern, please let me know and I can explore alternative login means that still leverage cryptographic signing.

I want to do this for the sake of decentralization and the reasons above. I plan on making bounties for people to earn WOW/WOWX for operating a copy of SWX with whatever content they like. The intention is that more people run more copies with different types of content for different types of people.

Regarding migration, there are a few ways I can handle it. I can capture all the users, get your new public key, and migrate the content on your behalf or I can allow you to repost everything on your own. I can setup redirects to point to the new domain for content pages, but tip addresses will be removed. Leaderboards/stats can get frozen or removed entirely. Idk, this is more up to yall. What info do you want carried over?

I never really liked Wowner0x I own zero eth, or avax, I refuse to use tokens entirely, Personally I view Wow0x as against the fundamentals of the coin, down to every level.

I love the wownero forms and SSO, I guess using wallet based signing is fine but that's not really intuitive?? I'd love to see how this works, if you'd like to give me an explanation that would be nice.
 
Would this migration make using meta mask and that new age crypto stuff mandatory? If so, then I might as well dip because I really don't like it.  

>WOWX and AVAX tips we can tally up because the chains are public, but WOW should be private, right?

 I, really don't like this. If you'd like maybe give us the address directly but give users the option to prove a donation using a view key? using avax and
what not REALLY REALLY gives me a sour taste in my mouth.

>no longer want to be the central authority of all Wownero memes.

Hire some based mods sir. I never saw censorship as a problem on suchwow.xyz

Thanks for the feedback here and in Discord.

> Would this migration make using meta mask and that new age crypto stuff mandatory? If so, then I might as well dip because I really don't like it.

I can add additional auth mechanisms, but MetaMask is just easiest to integrate. It's just cryptography bro,. Custom WOW/XMR based message signing will take a bit of work.

> I really don't like this. If you'd like maybe give us the address directly but give users the option to prove a donation using a view key? using avax and
what not REALLY REALLY gives me a sour taste in my mouth.

You don't have to use AVAX or WOWX at all. I could add an option to prove tips from the memer, but they'd have to provide TX ID, TX KEY, and received address.

> Hire some based mods sir. I never saw censorship as a problem on suchwow.xyz

Lack of mods is not what I mean. I've had several people decry censorship and yell at me/us for rejecting/removing memes. If there are 4500+ approved memes there are probably 8000 rejected/removed memes.

Quote from: "wowcultist, post:2, topic:1139"I never really liked Wowner0x I own zero eth, or avax, I refuse to use tokens entirely, Personally I view Wow0x as against the fundamentals of the coin, down to every level.

big same

@lza_menace  is there any potential to pass this torch onto another user?  there are many of us with wownero related domains that could probably manage it with a little help

thought wowx was going to compliment wownero not replace it

u make a lot of good points to not run the service. but i think a lot of us are pretty lowtech, using terminals, running with locked down browsers etc.   there is no way to use metamask over Tor. adding it to a tor browser gives users a false sense of security as you would think that everything will go over tor.  but Tor browser does not manage the networks of its plugins.  similarly Tails provides no way to use metamask as networking is custom tailored, in order to get the metamask connection through it would need to be torified or have a hardset proxy, neither are options as of right now

am thinking to ditch the privacy conscious users in order to reach a wider audience is a mistake.  we have a small cult following users genuinely participating.  hanging out in IRC the community might seem small but the community extends quite far beyond what is visible

Quote from: "lza_menace, post:3, topic:1139"I've had several people decry censorship and yell at me/us for rejecting/removing memes.

we know most of these are garbage memes, simply copy pastes, porn, or something bigoted .  in subversive projects there is a real danger to catering to toxic 'my freedom of speech' attitudes, pandering to those types has destroyed many communities over the years.  many of the new developers that have come into the IRC or discord have simply left only because getting berated for not being edgy enough dosnt really help ur state of mind when trying to develop new projects.  i only go there when im on a sufficient amount of drugs and/or feeling like a masochist.  we know the job is hard and we really appreciate all that u do,  just dont think making our users depend on a new tool that has nothing todo with wownero is helpful to our community.  have u thought about making a funding request for running it?

Quote from: "lza_menace, post:1, topic:1139"What info do you want carried over?

since it might all be going away.. can you make a tar backup of all the memes?   would start knocking on ur site but figured others might want this too

yeah, I'll make a backup - let me know who should get the dump. it's sqlite backup, all the content, and wownero wallet file - i have mnemonic seed to restore if needed. I'm burnt out, ready to pass the torch and move on.

Hey there sorry to hear that, I can take over or fund vps if needed. If you can put it back up until one of us takes over that would be great thanks.

Quote from: "bugbud, post:6, topic:1139"that'd be great thanks

I also have a server available - if necessary, fyi :slight_smile:

I totally support the migration. It is a step towards the right direction for increased decentralization.

For the old memes, it would be cool if you could to do an archive dump, sign the hashes, and the community seed torrents.

It wasn't privacy, freedom of speech or even the memes that attracted me to WoW it was that it was a pure POW coin with a fair start, so I knew that everyone solved an equally hard problem to get the coins. I get it I work with big Defi projects, NFTs ect and its all easy money from people who dont care if Jeff printed all the coins and used the money to buy blow its just another crypto and if jeff wants to spawn some tokens for the people to shine his shoes and clean his car its nothin but a small gas fee.  I get it its basically legal theft for literally nothing in you get others people money like whats it cost you to just make some wowx basically nothing and you just sell it or give it away to people who will buy whatever I mean its just free money. Sure long term the math doesnt work out for anyone but the people at the start or who control supply but who cares its like one can either fight the system and have a swiss bank in ones pocket thats fair or join the system get a metamask wallet and become the federal reserve control the supply but that approach has some major drawbacks for those in control. I'm sorry to hear that suchwow.xyz has burned you out but let me tell you the level of clusterfu%$ ive seen in defi project communities is on a whole other level, im sure if youll have full control over the livelihoods of a bunch of bright wowx investors looking to you to control the supply and who gets some youll be much much more stressed so just think this one through because it seems like your making yourself a central issuer of the currency. I honestly think that it would be great if more people launched meme coins on defi platforms because it just hyperinflates that market as theres no cost to creating as many as one wants so its doing good work by me but I really think you shouldnt abandon the concepts and community behind this coin because it runs deeper than just silly pictures and most WoW memes literally wouldnt make sense on WoWx, no more privacy, no fair start, no mining whats there to even meme about it just sounds like shib and theres so many of those types of groundless coins how is Wowx supposed to compete ?

@lza_menace  Would have tipped you better if I knew it was such a struggle, were here to support you if you want to stay on with Wownero. Love your work.

Decentralization of the meme platform but also centralization of the issuing of Wowx

yes, to a certain extent (issuance is controlled by a small group of signers to a multisig wallet, you are welcome to join by the way), but the point is participation in WOWX/AVAX is **totally optional**.

Memers are still able to post on the new platform and anonymously receive sweet sweet $WOW P2P tips

I like that a wows still available a lot but its a bit confusing to have the main WoW meme site on another chain ill host it as it was. Maybe even just chainging the WOWx branding to something completely new. Listen I think it could be really funny if you just issued new forms of WOWx all the time but different communities and always for locking up WoW so you could issue a Philly coin with Philly memes and a Philly community on AVAX but it requires users lock up WOW so while your getting them in deep into defi and just issuing new coins everyday at least behind it they have all have WOW so while our Doggy poop coin and Philly Coin and Suchmemes coins all battle it out everyone wins because they all increase the value of WOW the real common currency.  The WOW community makes some sick NFT art if some of those were issued for locking up WOW that would be a really neat way of issuing the NFTs.

yeah man, it would be interesting. It doesn't necessarily have to be AVAX. Any Ethereum virtual machine based chain (Solana, Polkadot, Cardano, Binance Smart Chain, etc) could easily spin off the concept. Everything is open source and anyone is free to fork it and run with it. https://github.com/wownerox

We need a multiverse of $WOW-backed ERC-20 shit meme tokens on all chains!

I had an similar idea ive been playing around with what if we created new names and brands for WOW so for example we create a "Newfoundland Coin " but theres no new coin its just a WOWnero wallet with the branding changed and a multiplier that reads out every Wow coin in the wallet as 50 "Newfoundland coins" then we create a story about how theres a feeless instant swap between the two but in either case your just sending your wow from one wow wallet to another.

swap instantly between 100 coins with WOWnero but in reality its just 100 different brands and denominations of WOW

I also think it should be actively encouraged that WOW be used in place of WOWx for privacy concerned users last thing we want is some poor guy making a meme of their countries leader and getting executed because he was found on chain I know its all jokes and fun but its a real concern of mine. I also have been lobbying some fairly big exchanges owners to add Wow and things are going well i wouldnt want WoWx to muddy those waters when i feel we are close to success.

no more suchwow.xyz? :broken_heart: damn, not good.  Looks like I will be out on the streets lookin for a new job soon.  

@lza_menace I appreciate and thank you for all the hard work it took to run suchwow.xyz.  You did an amazing job :pray:

I really hope the suchwow.xyz torch will be passed on to continue the same format because wowX just isn't my thing, I'm all about the old school WOW and the format of suchwow.xyz

We must step up as a team and save suchwow.xyz...I know I would be willing to help out in anyway possible @bugbud sounds like you're up for the challenge too

#SAVEsuchwow.xyz

(http://forum.wownero.com/custom_avatar/39e6f7576a874877181582fc2c430626f20da591.png)
Im glad I just made a habit of saving and archiving good ones looking through my files for comfort im starting to shake I havnt memed in hours. I never thought there could be something worse than waiting on mods but alas there is. Im going to just start posting memes with embedded addresses on reddit idk idk idk what to do man. I told my mom memeing on suchwow was my job man and that it worked she never did the math but this looks pathetic.

From the perspective of censorship id rather have the coins main meme site stay on point  and allow anyone to make their own if they so choose than have the entire meme ecosystem on a transparent chain. If 4chan was on AVAX people would self censor because its a transparent chain and it wouldnt have worked out the same. I just dont think transparent chain = censorship resistance

the memes are on IPFS (https://ipfs.io/#how), not on the actual blockchain

(http://forum.wownero.com/custom_avatar/01aa08bd557af526d966d84187ca40e7c3ce0b69.png)

The issue is for memes to be truly funny you shouldnt be able to to trace the troll who created them or the troll who tipped them or youll have people lulled into a false sense of security. A meme on IPFS might be hard to take down but if there transactions are transparent itll be easy to trace funds to and from various trolls. So if you post a meme that trashes a world leader thats not kind to that sort of thing sure they cant take it off of IPFS but they can trace the smart chain transactions to and from your wallet.

(http://forum.wownero.com/custom_avatar/b3abd4e5a6a4304f0e7635d7c81878385fa7e879.jpeg)

Quote from: "wowario, post:9, topic:1139"For the old memes, it would be cool if you could to do an archive dump, sign the hashes, and the community seed torrents.

@lza_menace this would be cool.  only really want the memes for shitposting, don't personally need database or keys

Quote from: "bugbud, post:24, topic:1139"trace the troll who created them

don't really care if its on ipfs so much as whether the frontend to the site can be accessed over Tor without the metamask wallet(maybe a way to sign in with wow cli?).  if the services use ipfs as a storage mechanism to save space does it really matter all that much?  thinking only the server would be talking to ipfs directly and users could use privacy software?

i have the meme dump and will start a torrent seed for it shortly

@lza_menace Can we keep the site running temporarily and transfer it all to another server I can host ? Would you mind if we could also transfer the domain and get a bit of guidance. I really cant use Wowx and none of my memes would be relevant there and id love to just keep mining and memeing original WOW.  I would be willing to offer 2500 WoW or equivalent XMR if youd rather not sell it into our rather shallow market to just help out one of the community members to take over and try to smooth out the transition keeping suchwow.xyz live for a few more days while we make the switch. What do you say?

@wowario even if I was included on the multisig for printing Wowx I just wouldnt feel comfortable promoting it to friends or controlling money supply in that way. If I could print coins with no difficulty Id honestly print coins to buy food and medicine for people but alas free energy doesnt exist and id just be robbing peter to pay paul, the POW mechanism is more sound and promotes a mutual end that will work better long term. I would prefer a solution where a user provides a view key and the sub addresses are embedded directly into the images as QR codes so one could just track incoming payments to associated content and sure theres less privacy within that wallet but once the Wownero is moved its still hard to follow and it certainly beats using a transparent chain. One could also track tips to content across platforms.

Using view key to add/embed sub address ( qr code ) to image and track the incoming tips allows you to still host on IPFS, custom mastadon instance, webtorrent or allows users to post images anywhere (reddit,twitter, suchwow ect ) while maintaining a list of most tipped content without having any custody over any users funds. Users can get privacy by moving tips out, sure wallet activity is tracked but once moved a few times the privacy is returned to the user and it beats having everything on a transparent smart chain. The only part that is missing that exists in WOWx is the ability for certain users to print additional coins out of thin air and im just not sold on the value of that, It only works by creating additional inflation and ultimately dilution and undermines the work other users do for coins. I like the idea of using dumb not smart solutions, dumb solutions tend to be simpler and better. If we want to add NFTs to the WOW community memes we could use this neat dumb solution using pgp https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/12/an-nft-without-a-blockchain-no-gas-fees-no-eth/#comments (https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/12/an-nft-without-a-blockchain-no-gas-fees-no-eth/#comments)%20used%20in%20conjunction%20with%20a%20Distributed%20OpenPGP%20Timestamping%20Service%20(DOTS) theres no need for a smart chain.

lza probably  <3:

(http://forum.wownero.com/custom_avatar/8a80fe1dad3c2ea3fc8827e00aaf3544f02cbb70.png)

@bugbud maybe you could create a bounty on funding.wownero.com

lza has offered to pass the site/database on to someone else in the community

100% agree with @bugbud we need to keep suchwow.xyz site/format style alive anyway possible as it is a BIG part of WOWNERO especially with it being linked to the desktop WOWLET.  We must not let it die!  @dsc said he has a server available if necessary.  I'm sure others would be willing to help out as would I #SAVEsuchwow.xyz

(http://forum.wownero.com/custom_avatar/dc6ff0d7973c392e81e960257b2a717bf1654c85.jpeg)

:rofl: :joy: :sweat_smile:
ok this got me LMAO

:100:

I realized I was being lame by shutting it down so abruptly so I brought it back up. The wallet got borked in the scuffle so I had to restore it, resync from scratch, and fix some bugs that allowed posts to reference already used account indexes (wownero wallet account).